Interviews │ Interview with Nicolás Fernández Arroyo, director of the local development program from the Center for the Implementation of Public Policies for Equity and Growth (CIPPEC) about the exchange experience with the Institution for Reform and Opportunities Advance (Grupo FARO) from Ecuador, in the context of the 10th anniversary of the Municipal Leaders Program.

[Editor’s note: In mid-2014, in the context of the 10^th anniversary of the Municipal Leaders Program from the Local Development Program from CIPPEC, Grupo FARO’s representatives visited Argentina in order to strengthen their knowledge about both the management and implementation of the project. Some weeks later, CIPPEC’s representatives travelled to Ecuador to participate in a workshop related to the topic. Through this interview, the director reveals its expectations, results and balance about the role of these exchanges for South-South Cooperation among Think Tanks. This interview was conducted and edited by Federico Frascheri.]

Federico Frascheri (FF): What is your balance of the Municipal Leaders Program after 10 years of its first edition?

Nicolás Fernández Arroyo (NFA): It is very positive. Firstly, we have always aimed to create a program that would transcend in time. That is the reason of the name we have chosen. We were lucky to choose a generic name, “Municipal Leaders” and although it was targeted to councilors in the beginning, we included other profiles later.

Each year’s objective is to improve the previous event: we set concrete goals in terms of content, format, pedagogical methodology, scholarship profile, etc. That worked out, and today we have an established program both in terms of position among local leaders and working frame to execute it.

Although the most visible action is the four-day event, it is a yearlong task. Once the event has ended, we keep on working. A positive fact consists on its permanent institutionalization along the years and the frame actualization based on demands, which change year after year. 

FF: Which is its main strength?

NFA: There are some characteristics that make it a strategic program for CIPPEC. One of them is the policy that every attendant is scholar. This means that not only those who can afford it may attend, as comes to be with a couple of programs in Argentina which in terms of contents are similar but cost ten times more. Attendants just pay the tuition and transportation to the city hosting the event. Other expenditures are covered. This means a great effort to find sponsors and partners every year. The scholarship allows that just those who are really interested in being qualified, those who show more commitment sign in. Moreover, they have a greater sense of belonging since in some way they were rewarded or selected among many others. This strengthens the idea of a community of practice, which is fostered through a virtual platform that makes being called “scholars” and members of CIPPEC’s Municipal Leaders Network an invitation to actively participate in the activities we develop.

Another strength is its annual performance. A former scholar belonging allows that its Network adhesion to keep alive. This is partially caused by the program replication year after year.  

FF: Do you identify any aspect that could have been better designed or implemented?

NFA: These activities are never perfect. At the moment the event has ended, we are already thinking about the best way to improve them. We make an evaluation to attendants, expositors and staff. And over that we identify the worst qualified or the ones identified as weaknesses or matters that could be improved. Moreover, based on our lively experience we identify other matters that might be better set along the following year.

We have also imposed ourselves certain matters. A great challenge consisted on deciding to develop it at a different city every year. This makes it more federal and allows those local leaders who might not be able to attend –given the distance- to do it. Moving the program to the Interior means that it will be close to your city sooner or later.

This means a challenge in terms of logistics. If we developed it at the same city year after year, we would be able to identify the best suppliers and then replicate them. But changing cities means that each year everything is new: new suppliers to every service, new interlocutors. We believe that replicating it through different cities is a core value, but projected in time the task is exhausting. 

This year was the ninth edition and we performed it at Buenos Aires, which was somehow forbidden to me, since we have always thought that it shall be developed in the Interior. But we were able to do it and in terms of logistics turned to be much simpler. Both in terms of distances and in terms of reducing direct expenditures since the majority of trainers are at Buenos Aires. So, maybe, one of the lessons we learned through these years is that we could have performed it before at Buenos Aires and use other policy to reach other places of the country, with other methods and not only with the event.

FF: Which were the motives to travel to Ecuador? And your expectations?

NFA: CIPPEC has an institutional link with Grupo FARO from many years. They had already contacted us twice, interested in knowing more about the program we used to train local leaders. This year and thanks to a specific funding they received from international cooperation, they had the chance to cover their logistic expenditures for two of their members to travel to Argentina and participate of our launching event number nine. First we received a request to participate. And we said yes, joyfully.

Following that but previous to the event, an invitation to travel to Quito and participate at a one and a half day long workshop came to me, in which were invited both CIPPEC and Getulio Vargas Foundation representatives. The workshop was completed with participants that were specialists on local development in Ecuador from two universities, a municipalist from Quito, among others. We were a group of 8 to 10 and participated on topics referred to analyzing how a municipal leaders training program for Ecuador could be designed. On this occasion, inside the workshop program, both Marlos Lima[1] and I presented our case studies, and over that the design was built over three topics: curricula, frame from a methodological point of view and the way to make it sustainable in the long term.

The second day fewer people assisted: Grupo FARO’s, the municipalist consultant, Marlos and I. We focused on supporting them to take decisions on certain issues related to design and how to involve both CIPPEC and Getulio Vargas Foundation so that they could participate during the first years of the execution.

The practice was useful and refreshing because while we were there we came to the conclusion that what they were looking for was similar to what we perform. Many ideas from CIPPEC’s Municipal Leaders Program and Getulio Vargas Foundation were absorbed, molded to the Ecuadorian context.

They had a very ambitious idea and we tried to make it more realistic in terms of methodology, finance, structure and communication, among others.   

FF: Did you consider the chance to continue working together?

NFA: We did. Concerning everything related to Municipal Leaders, we have a procedure handbook. The idea is to keep on sharing material and experiences.

FF: Which are the challenges when replicating an experience like this one in a different context?

NFA: First of all, they have a different reality: Ecuador has a unitary government while our system is federal, as well as Brazil. Thus, our municipal regimes are different.

There are several matters that may be shared in methodological terms: to be scholar, the open call, to look for representation at a regional level and in partisan terms, to select a certain profile; the bibliography and guides to be used to generate debates and develop more theoretical aspects in these type of trainings; the type of platform and use of social networks to make it work. All this is replicable. It is the hardest and can be shared and replicated, whatever context they have.

But the communicational strategy, the way the program is presented to the government in terms of not being program to train opposition but to allow a horizontal exchange among local leaders; this is possible, but with different tools and strategies, adapted to the local context. As an example, Ecuador lacks of connectivity, so the online inscription would be hard to accomplish. These topics must be confronted in other way, inevitably different.

On the other hand, there are some issues in which we have different points of view and they will have to adapt them to their searches. We focused nonetheless on the differences to develop strategies with our suggestions.  

FF: Which factors facilitated collaboration among participants?

NFA: Most important of all, we had a previous institutional linkage. We knew about the existence of one another and the mutual interest about topics related to local development. For them, identifying CIPPEC as an organization which involves resources and has a working team strictly linked to local development was new, since Grupo FARO does not possess yet a local area. To be present at a think tank network that works horizontally through which they knew what we do, clearly facilitated this identification as a “potential strategic partner”.

It was also decisive for them to find specific finance to generate a diagnosis and a local leaders training program proposal. This support allowed them to travel to Buenos Aires and pay NGOs representatives from other countries to be part of the workshops at Quito.

FF: Which was the greatest contribution to your program?

NFA: The contribution consisted on considering what we are doing in a regional dimension. On one side, this means to discover that what we are doing is useful for other countries of the region and on the other hand that we are able to build a joint working agenda so as not only expositors but also local leaders could have the possibility to travel. As we share our methods and experiences, we can also receive and learn from  others’ experiences. 

This interview is also available in Spanish.